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Seeking Alpha
I was checking out a new facility by Eric LeMaire which
lists the latest eBay prices for gold and silver as well as
some common numismaticals from decades past
http://xrl.us/oy4pb What struck me were the huge premiums
that silver investors are prepared to pay for one ounce
coins right up to 100 oz bars. At a glance I could see an
average premium of 124% for American Silver Eagles, 164%
for Kookaburras and 105% for Maples. More sane premiums can
be seen on the 100 oz at 35% which is nevertheless still a
hefty premium compared to how much one may pay for other
asset classes.
Now of course some of these buyers will be just coin
collectors who don’t give priority to the metal price but
the savvier silver buyer can avoid all of this by
purchasing in bulk. For example, at one dealer you can buy
a box of 500 Silver Eagles for a better premium of 52% over
the spot price but that means stumping up over $7000. No
doubt some can quote better deals to me. The main point is
this though, the higher the premium the longer you have to
wait to break even.
A 124% premium on eBay Silver Eagles
http://xrl.us/SilverEagles means you don’t break even until
silver hits $21.57 which is above the 20 year high set in
March! If you buy in bulk as mentioned above, you break
even at about $15 an ounce. The bottom line is no investor
should be buying silver bullion at double the spot price.
Even 52% smacks of inefficiency and a waste of investment
capital...
Continued: http://xrl.us/oy4o5
Better to buy neither and wait for gold to drop to 400 an ounce and 6
bucks on silver. Hyperinflation could be as far off as 16 years but for
certain is at least 2 years off. Why buy at these prices when you can
buy them for about half next year?
Ned wrote:
> Seeking Alpha
>
> I was checking out a new facility by Eric LeMaire which
> lists the latest eBay prices for gold and silver as well as
> some common numismaticals from decades past
> http://xrl.us/oy4pb What struck me were the huge premiums
> that silver investors are prepared to pay for one ounce
> coins right up to 100 oz bars. At a glance I could see an
> average premium of 124% for American Silver Eagles, 164%
> for Kookaburras and 105% for Maples. More sane premiums can
> be seen on the 100 oz at 35% which is nevertheless still a
> hefty premium compared to how much one may pay for other
> asset classes.
>
> Now of course some of these buyers will be just coin
> collectors who don’t give priority to the metal price but
> the savvier silver buyer can avoid all of this by
> purchasing in bulk. For example, at one dealer you can buy
> a box of 500 Silver Eagles for a better premium of 52% over
> the spot price but that means stumping up over $7000. No
> doubt some can quote better deals to me. The main point is
> this though, the higher the premium the longer you have to
> wait to break even.
>
> A 124% premium on eBay Silver Eagles
> http://xrl.us/SilverEagles means you don’t break even until
> silver hits $21.57 which is above the 20 year high set in
> March! If you buy in bulk as mentioned above, you break
> even at about $15 an ounce. The bottom line is no investor
> should be buying silver bullion at double the spot price.
> Even 52% smacks of inefficiency and a waste of investment
> capital...
>
> Continued: http://xrl.us/oy4o5
--
The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG
Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city
Nay, Art thou decideth playeth ye simpleton games. *Some* of us know
proper manners
Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs,
Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!
El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar
Master Juba was a black man imitating a white man imitating a black man
Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions
beyond the realm of understandability
Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday
"Ned" <n...@p...borked.net> wrote in message
news:c9538d5ca056935086eb96966f0fcdf5@pseudo.borked.
net...
> Seeking Alpha
>
> I was checking out a new facility by Eric LeMaire which
> lists the latest eBay prices for gold and silver as well as
> some common numismaticals from decades past
> http://xrl.us/oy4pb What struck me were the huge premiums
> that silver investors are prepared to pay for one ounce
> coins right up to 100 oz bars. At a glance I could see an
> average premium of 124% for American Silver Eagles, 164%
> for Kookaburras and 105% for Maples. More sane premiums can
> be seen on the 100 oz at 35% which is nevertheless still a
> hefty premium compared to how much one may pay for other
> asset classes.
>
> Now of course some of these buyers will be just coin
> collectors who don't give priority to the metal price but
> the savvier silver buyer can avoid all of this by
> purchasing in bulk. For example, at one dealer you can buy
> a box of 500 Silver Eagles for a better premium of 52% over
> the spot price but that means stumping up over $7000. No
> doubt some can quote better deals to me. The main point is
> this though, the higher the premium the longer you have to
> wait to break even.
>
> A 124% premium on eBay Silver Eagles
> http://xrl.us/SilverEagles means you don't break even until
> silver hits $21.57 which is above the 20 year high set in
> March! If you buy in bulk as mentioned above, you break
> even at about $15 an ounce. The bottom line is no investor
> should be buying silver bullion at double the spot price.
> Even 52% smacks of inefficiency and a waste of investment
> capital...
>
> Continued: http://xrl.us/oy4o5
>
The Ebay buyers are morons.
A dealer such as tulving.com has 100 oz silver bars for about a 20% premium
and 1000 oz silver bars for about a 6% premium.
Anyone with money can deal in silver and gold futures and ETFs GLD and SLV
for little or no premium.
"catalpa" <c...@e...org> wrote:
>
>"Ned" <n...@p...borked.net> wrote in message
>news:c9538d5ca056935086eb96966f0fcdf5@pseudo.borked
.net...
>> Seeking Alpha
>>
>> I was checking out a new facility by Eric LeMaire which
>> lists the latest eBay prices for gold and silver as well as
>> some common numismaticals from decades past
>> http://xrl.us/oy4pb What struck me were the huge premiums
>> that silver investors are prepared to pay for one ounce
>> coins right up to 100 oz bars. At a glance I could see an
>> average premium of 124% for American Silver Eagles, 164%
>> for Kookaburras and 105% for Maples. More sane premiums can
>> be seen on the 100 oz at 35% which is nevertheless still a
>> hefty premium compared to how much one may pay for other
>> asset classes.
>>
>> Now of course some of these buyers will be just coin
>> collectors who don't give priority to the metal price but
>> the savvier silver buyer can avoid all of this by
>> purchasing in bulk. For example, at one dealer you can buy
>> a box of 500 Silver Eagles for a better premium of 52% over
>> the spot price but that means stumping up over $7000. No
>> doubt some can quote better deals to me. The main point is
>> this though, the higher the premium the longer you have to
>> wait to break even.
>>
>> A 124% premium on eBay Silver Eagles
>> http://xrl.us/SilverEagles means you don't break even until
>> silver hits $21.57 which is above the 20 year high set in
>> March! If you buy in bulk as mentioned above, you break
>> even at about $15 an ounce. The bottom line is no investor
>> should be buying silver bullion at double the spot price.
>> Even 52% smacks of inefficiency and a waste of investment
>> capital...
>>
>> Continued: http://xrl.us/oy4o5
>>
>
>The Ebay buyers are morons.
>
>A dealer such as tulving.com has 100 oz silver bars for about a 20% premium
>and 1000 oz silver bars for about a 6% premium.
>
>Anyone with money can deal in silver and gold futures and ETFs GLD and SLV
>for little or no premium.
>
>
I assume there is no problem taking delivery of just a few PM futures
contracts?
"d." <...@n...com> wrote in message
news:4935d526.335895236@216.168.3.70...
> "catalpa" <c...@e...org> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Ned" <n...@p...borked.net> wrote in message
>>news:c9538d5ca056935086eb96966f0fcdf5@pseudo.borke
d.net...
>>> Seeking Alpha
>>>
>>> I was checking out a new facility by Eric LeMaire which
>>> lists the latest eBay prices for gold and silver as well as
>>> some common numismaticals from decades past
>>> http://xrl.us/oy4pb What struck me were the huge premiums
>>> that silver investors are prepared to pay for one ounce
>>> coins right up to 100 oz bars. At a glance I could see an
>>> average premium of 124% for American Silver Eagles, 164%
>>> for Kookaburras and 105% for Maples. More sane premiums can
>>> be seen on the 100 oz at 35% which is nevertheless still a
>>> hefty premium compared to how much one may pay for other
>>> asset classes.
>>>
>>> Now of course some of these buyers will be just coin
>>> collectors who don't give priority to the metal price but
>>> the savvier silver buyer can avoid all of this by
>>> purchasing in bulk. For example, at one dealer you can buy
>>> a box of 500 Silver Eagles for a better premium of 52% over
>>> the spot price but that means stumping up over $7000. No
>>> doubt some can quote better deals to me. The main point is
>>> this though, the higher the premium the longer you have to
>>> wait to break even.
>>>
>>> A 124% premium on eBay Silver Eagles
>>> http://xrl.us/SilverEagles means you don't break even until
>>> silver hits $21.57 which is above the 20 year high set in
>>> March! If you buy in bulk as mentioned above, you break
>>> even at about $15 an ounce. The bottom line is no investor
>>> should be buying silver bullion at double the spot price.
>>> Even 52% smacks of inefficiency and a waste of investment
>>> capital...
>>>
>>> Continued: http://xrl.us/oy4o5
>>>
>>
>>The Ebay buyers are morons.
>>
>>A dealer such as tulving.com has 100 oz silver bars for about a 20%
>>premium
>>and 1000 oz silver bars for about a 6% premium.
>>
>>Anyone with money can deal in silver and gold futures and ETFs GLD and SLV
>>for little or no premium.
>>
>>
>
> I assume there is no problem taking delivery of just a few PM futures
> contracts?
I don't recognize "PM" as a futures symbol.
If you have the money you can take delivery on any of the COMEX traded
metals after giving proper notice.
"catalpa" <c...@e...org> wrote in message
news:zMlZk.2436$QX3.1266@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> I don't recognize "PM" as a futures symbol.
PM=precious metals
"Ned" <n...@p...borked.net> wrote in message
news:c9538d5ca056935086eb96966f0fcdf5@pseudo.borked.
net...
> Seeking Alpha
>
> I was checking out a new facility by Eric LeMaire which
> lists the latest eBay prices for gold and silver as well as
> some common numismaticals from decades past
> http://xrl.us/oy4pb What struck me were the huge premiums
> that silver investors are prepared to pay for one ounce
> coins right up to 100 oz bars.
You can buy the bars straight from the "producer" for spot price.
On Dec 2, 11:00 am, Ned <n...@p...borked.net> wrote:
> ... average premium of 124% for American Silver Eagles, 164%
> for Kookaburras and 105% for Maples. More sane premiums can
> be seen on the 100 oz at 35% which is nevertheless still a
US, Canadian. etc., current year government issue bullion coins are
magnets for people who react to the news. The US coins are sold only
through a limited number of wholesalers. Also, once gone, they are
gone for that year. That is all true, but not relevant.
On the "street," (over the counter) gold is $1000 an ounce and silver
is $15.00.
We just had a major numismatic convention here in Dearborn (MSNS) and
dealers held their premiums on all bullion items. They feel that the
nominal "spot price" is being manipulated, forced downward
artificially by extra-market entities such as central banks and
government treasuries. They do not need to sell. At this show at
least, they were not offering to _buy_ at those ridiculous mark-ups,
so they are not really short on inventory. That said, however, ...
Some dealers are, indeed, out of stock on common and popular items,
such as US 1-ounce and 1/10 Gold Eagles. Those same dealers did have
French 20-Franc and other common European gold. So, while there are
some shortages -- and again dealers were _not_ offering 20%... 40% ...
60%.... 120%... over spot -- those who hold it now are willing to
wait for their price.
With the spot price low, they increase the margins.
You can claim that the price of gold is $770 or whatever, but if
dealers sell at $900+, then that is truly the real price of gold on
the street, the only price that counts.
In a related story -- One my dealer friends hates it when he has a
coin in the case for some price, like $125, and someone says that it's
$85 on Greysheet. He replies, "Buy if from them. This one is $125."
See, the people who post "official" prices do not really have anything
to sell.
In fact, as for commodities, I heard from a dealer that back in
October anyway, CBOT contracts were being settled with cash, not
commodities. Buy silver, take "delivery" and all they "deliver" is a
check, not silver.
I was at a different coin store about the same time and I bought gold,
but when I asked about silver, he said he had none for sale, even
though I could see bags and stacks of new purchases unprocesses at his
desk. He wasn't selling. It's his choice, but the point is that spot
prices are irrelevant. On the street, over the counter, US 90% Silver
is going for at least 10x face, at least. Right now with silver at
$9.43, that should be about 7x face. If you can find someone selling
for less, enjoy.
Mike M.
Michael E. Marotta
From a Numismaster story linked here by John Stone:
A Textbook Example Of Gold Manipulation
By Patrick A. Heller, Market Update
December 02, 2008
Last week the U.S. Mint released horrible news about the initial
release of 2009 Eagle products. In past years, the Mint has been able
to produce the new year's coins for two to four months before the
first January sale and been able to cover almost all orders. For the
beginning of 2009, the U.S. Mint will only be selling 1 ounce gold
American Eagles and Silver Eagles dollars, and only in the quantity
that they can strike in two weeks in December. There will not be any
sales of Platinum Eagles, fractional size Gold Eagles, or Gold
Buffaloes. Since this news was released, premiums on US bullion coins
have started to rise. At the Michigan State Numismatic Society
convention in Dearborn last weekend, the few dealers who had Gold
Eagles in stock were able to sell all they have for more than $100
above the gold spot price.
http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=a
rticle&ArticleId=5837
"Mike Marotta" <m...@t...com> wrote in message
news:bf96686d-0cdf-4841-9d77-22b001d1dd3a@13g2000yql
.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 2, 11:00 am, Ned <n...@p...borked.net> wrote:
> ... average premium of 124% for American Silver Eagles, 164%
> for Kookaburras and 105% for Maples. More sane premiums can
> be seen on the 100 oz at 35% which is nevertheless still a
US, Canadian. etc., current year government issue bullion coins are
magnets for people who react to the news. The US coins are sold only
through a limited number of wholesalers. Also, once gone, they are
gone for that year. That is all true, but not relevant.
On the "street," (over the counter) gold is $1000 an ounce and silver
is $15.00.
We just had a major numismatic convention here in Dearborn (MSNS) and
dealers held their premiums on all bullion items. They feel that the
nominal "spot price" is being manipulated, forced downward
artificially by extra-market entities such as central banks and
government treasuries. They do not need to sell. At this show at
least, they were not offering to _buy_ at those ridiculous mark-ups,
so they are not really short on inventory. That said, however, ...
Some dealers are, indeed, out of stock on common and popular items,
such as US 1-ounce and 1/10 Gold Eagles. Those same dealers did have
French 20-Franc and other common European gold. So, while there are
some shortages -- and again dealers were _not_ offering 20%... 40% ...
60%.... 120%... over spot -- those who hold it now are willing to
wait for their price.
With the spot price low, they increase the margins.
You can claim that the price of gold is $770 or whatever, but if
dealers sell at $900+, then that is truly the real price of gold on
the street, the only price that counts.
In a related story -- One my dealer friends hates it when he has a
coin in the case for some price, like $125, and someone says that it's
$85 on Greysheet. He replies, "Buy if from them. This one is $125."
See, the people who post "official" prices do not really have anything
to sell.
________________
Nice bedside manner, your dealer friend. I suppose he's one of those
"elite" who doesn't need the walk-up trade at the big shows to make a
living, but puts up with it anyway. He mostly likes to be seen and to deal
with his buddies. If I got a smart-ass response like that from a dealer to
a price question, he would lose my business along with that of anyone else
who'd listen to my experience with him. But then, I suppose he couldn't
care less. And some people wonder how stereotypes are formed.
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