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All you have to do is find the battery capacity in in KWatts. Assume a
totally dead battery (just four our analysis) and you can determine the
number of KW from your house mains to charge that (and that is assuming 100%
efficiencly). OK just for grins, lets say the battery is only half run down
when you charge it. Do the math that way.
I will bet you will not be happy. My suspicion is that the most efficient
way to charge that battery is when you are out driving the Volt with the
engine on. You will likely find that the Volt will get just as good a
mileage as any car that comes with an equivalent horsepower engine. And you
have to put up with its low power.
I will not do the math because the volt is sold on miles per gallon, not
dollars per mile. It will have some 'outstanding' mileage rating of 50 mpg
and the car will cost you only $40,000.
Wait until they become available and the pundits and car mags quote you the
actual 'savings'.
Vito
"Lubow" <l...@l...com> wrote in message
news:49330397$0$25064$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.co
m...
>
> "Uncle_vito" <u...@y...com> wrote in message
> news:4OmdnZqVH46Alq7UnZ2dnUVZ_qPinZ2d@linkline.com..
.
>>
>> I saw the Volt at the Los Angeles Auto Show. They had a sales rep
>> drawing on a white board about the attributes of the car. It is really a
>> car with a small gasoline engine that, by the way, has a battery and
>> charger that you can plug into the wall. They had a plug and cord on the
>> demo model and the plug and cord looked like a standard 15A 110V plug
>> rather than the 100A 220V plug that a serious electric car would have.
>
> Maybe serious air conditioners and stoves, but please cite where is it
> written that "serious" electric cars are charged-up at any particular
> voltage or current?
>
>>
>> Also prepare to pay high electric bills.. You think gasoline is high,
>> compared to Kilowatts of electricity, gasoline is cheap!
>>
>> Vito
>
> So what are the stats for the Volt? How many KWHs are required to fully
> charge 'er up to get the forty miles? Here, we're charged among the
> highest in the country for electricity at around $0.086/KWH. Will it cost
> me $0.80 to get the forty miles or what?
"Uncle_vito" <u...@y...com> wrote in message
news:YZednUCck7_Pu67UnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@linkline.com..
.
> All you have to do is find the battery capacity in in KWatts. Assume a
> totally dead battery (just four our analysis) and you can determine the number
> of KW from your house mains to charge that (and that is assuming 100%
> efficiencly). OK just for grins, lets say the battery is only half run down
> when you charge it. Do the math that way.
Did GM provide you with any data? Battery capacity is measured in amp-hour @
12VDC. So, we'll need total amp-hrs for the battery set and HP or watts for the
electric motor.
Uncle_vito wrote:
> All you have to do is find the battery capacity in in KWatts. Assume a
> totally dead battery (just four our analysis) and you can determine the
> number of KW from your house mains to charge that (and that is assuming 100%
> efficiencly). OK just for grins, lets say the battery is only half run down
> when you charge it. Do the math that way.
>
> I will bet you will not be happy. My suspicion is that the most efficient
> way to charge that battery is when you are out driving the Volt with the
> engine on. You will likely find that the Volt will get just as good a
> mileage as any car that comes with an equivalent horsepower engine. And you
> have to put up with its low power.
>
> I will not do the math because the volt is sold on miles per gallon, not
> dollars per mile. It will have some 'outstanding' mileage rating of 50 mpg
> and the car will cost you only $40,000.
>
> Wait until they become available and the pundits and car mags quote you the
> actual 'savings'.
Yea. ISTM that the Volt is only good for city commuting, and thus has to
compete directly with hybrids in the area which is their strong suit.
A Prius does 50 or better in the city, IIRC, and is half the price of
the Volt. What's the value proposition?
JG
>
> Vito
>
>
> "Lubow" <l...@l...com> wrote in message
> news:49330397$0$25064$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.co
m...
>> "Uncle_vito" <u...@y...com> wrote in message
>> news:4OmdnZqVH46Alq7UnZ2dnUVZ_qPinZ2d@linkline.com..
.
>>> I saw the Volt at the Los Angeles Auto Show. They had a sales rep
>>> drawing on a white board about the attributes of the car. It is really a
>>> car with a small gasoline engine that, by the way, has a battery and
>>> charger that you can plug into the wall. They had a plug and cord on the
>>> demo model and the plug and cord looked like a standard 15A 110V plug
>>> rather than the 100A 220V plug that a serious electric car would have.
>> Maybe serious air conditioners and stoves, but please cite where is it
>> written that "serious" electric cars are charged-up at any particular
>> voltage or current?
>>
>>> Also prepare to pay high electric bills.. You think gasoline is high,
>>> compared to Kilowatts of electricity, gasoline is cheap!
>>>
>>> Vito
>> So what are the stats for the Volt? How many KWHs are required to fully
>> charge 'er up to get the forty miles? Here, we're charged among the
>> highest in the country for electricity at around $0.086/KWH. Will it cost
>> me $0.80 to get the forty miles or what?
>
>
"Lubow" <l...@l...com> wrote in message
news:49331ade$0$24999$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.co
m...
>
> "Uncle_vito" <u...@y...com> wrote in message
> news:YZednUCck7_Pu67UnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@linkline.com..
.
>> All you have to do is find the battery capacity in in KWatts. Assume a
>> totally dead battery (just four our analysis) and you can determine the
>> number of KW from your house mains to charge that (and that is assuming 100%
>> efficiencly). OK just for grins, lets say the battery is only half run down
>> when you charge it. Do the math that way.
>
> Did GM provide you with any data? Battery capacity is measured in amp-hour @
> 12VDC. So, we'll need total amp-hrs for the battery set and HP or watts for
> the electric motor.
Hmmmm.... I'm looking at the data for the Prius. It's battery output is 21KW @
201.6VDC. This is getting confusing.
On Nov 30, 7:32?pm, "Lubow" <l...@l...com> wrote:
> "Lubow" <l...@l...com> wrote in message
>
> news:49331ade$0$24999$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.co
m...
>
> > "Uncle_vito" <u...@y...com> wrote in message
> >news:YZednUCck7_Pu67UnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@linkline.com.
..
> >> All you have to do is find the battery capacity in in KWatts. ?Assume a
> >> totally dead battery (just four our analysis) and you can determine the
> >> number of KW from your house mains to charge that (and that is assuming 100%
> >> efficiencly). ?OK just for grins, lets say the battery is only half run down
> >> when you charge it. ?Do the math that way.
>
> > Did GM provide you with any data? ?Battery capacity is measured in amp-hour @
> > 12VDC. ?So, we'll need total amp-hrs for the battery set and HP or watts for
> > the electric motor.
>
> Hmmmm.... I'm looking at the data for the Prius. ?It's battery output is 21KW @
> 201.6VDC. ?This is getting confusing.
201.6VDC? How many cells does the damn battery have? I wonder what
would happen if you tried to jump another car with that sucker.
On Nov 30, 3:52 pm, "Uncle_vito" <u...@y...com> wrote:
>
> I saw the Volt at the Los Angeles Auto Show. . .
> . . .
> They had a plug and cord on the demo model and the
> plug and cord looked like a standard 15A 110V plug . . .
>
> Also prepare to pay high electric bills.. You think gasoline is high,
> compared to Kilowatts of electricity, gasoline is cheap!
>
> Vito
A standard 110V 15A household outlet is rated for 80% continuous duty.
12a x 120V = 1440 VA (forget power factor) = 1.44 kilowatts.
If the Volt can be re-charged overnight, that's 12 hours.
12 hours times 1.44 KW = 17.3 Kilowatt-hour
17.3 KwH times @ 10 cents per kilowatt/hour is $1.73 per charge.
That ignores the reality of tapered charge rates, which would reduce
this calculation by about 25%
That's less than about $1.30 to travel 40 miles on battery alone, not
bad at all.
(Unless OPEC loses control and we go back to 1998 and $10 oil.)
.-=d00b
.
I should have asked the GM rep about the bat capacity. Batteries are
typically several hundred volts, DC. They have a converter to do the
voltage conversion.
The Prius has a very small battery. That is why it is a hybrid. Both
engine and battery (charging under engine power) are operating most of the
time. It has a 'continuously variable' transmission which is not as you
would think. There is a planetary gear system with the engine/alternater on
the sun gear, the electric motor drivine the ring gear and the planetary
gears going to the rear wheels.
They can keep the engine at the rpm for max efficiency and crank up the
electric motor speed to accelerate. If the alternator is not putting out
enough current for the motor to do this, it uses the power from the battery.
The battery only provides power in the cases where the engine run alternator
is not putting out enough power to run the motor at the necessary rpm to
give the car the speed the driver wants. When this mode is run long enough,
the battery runs down and the engine just has to rev up and power the car,
most efficient rpm be damned in this case.
Starting from a stop with a fully charged battery, the motor can run alone
without the engine, but the battery will run down fast and the engine will
have to start.
Vito
"Lubow" <l...@l...com> wrote in message
news:49331ade$0$24999$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.co
m...
>
> "Uncle_vito" <u...@y...com> wrote in message
> news:YZednUCck7_Pu67UnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@linkline.com..
.
>> All you have to do is find the battery capacity in in KWatts. Assume a
>> totally dead battery (just four our analysis) and you can determine the
>> number of KW from your house mains to charge that (and that is assuming
>> 100% efficiencly). OK just for grins, lets say the battery is only half
>> run down when you charge it. Do the math that way.
>
> Did GM provide you with any data? Battery capacity is measured in
> amp-hour @ 12VDC. So, we'll need total amp-hrs for the battery set and HP
> or watts for the electric motor.
John Galt <k...@g...com> wrote in message
news:S7EYk.349774$5p1.191080@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews
.com...
> Yea, there's that as well. Most people don't know what they pay per KwH,
Boy, that's a difficult thing to find out, since it's on EVERY ELECTRIC
BILL I'VE EVER RECEIVED...
> and I'm sure that Chevy won't be advertising how much power it takes to
> charge.
Sure they will, since pure electric operation costs somewhere around
75% LESS than gasoline operation, though it DOES depend on the rates
from your local utility company, the actual batteries used, etc. This is
something you can verify easily doing a simple Google(TM) search, though
some of the links will complicate the issue by talking about charging
efficiencies, thermal efficiencies, transmission efficiencies, etc., that I'm
sure would make all the purported "professional engineers" and "rocket
scientists" here have to lie down...perhaps permenantly due to actual
information thrombosis...but the bottom line is, it's MUCH cheaper in terms
of ENERGY COST PER MILE to drive an electric car...
In any event, back when GM was screwing around with their last foray
into electric vehicles, the EV1, I knew several people who "owned" one,
several at a not-very-large company I worked for at the time. They ALL
loved it, and relayed exactly how much money they saved per mile for
energy (a LOT), and I think some of them were the type of "tree-huggers"
who tried to chain themselves to their beloved cars to prevent the evil
GM/oil company conspiracy from crushing them...
---
William Ernest Reid
Post count: 1357
"Lawyerkill" <L...@a...com> wrote in message
news:704fbf0a-5ff6-401c-b49a-44cdbd626ffc@y18g2000yq
n.googlegroups.com...
>> Hmmmm.... I'm looking at the data for the Prius. It's battery output is 21KW
>> @
> >201.6VDC. This is getting confusing.
>201.6VDC? How many cells does the damn battery have? I wonder what
>would happen if you tried to jump another car with that sucker.
My son has a Honda hybrid. His trunk space is mostly occupied with battery
cells. The good part is that the state gave him a permit to drive in the HOV
lane because it's a "green" vehicle. The bad part is that he is frequently at
Bronx Supreme (across from Yankee Stadium) where stealing car batteries appears
to the national sport.
"Doobie Keebler" <k...@g...com> wrote in message
news:7c8cfdb6-c541-48b8-a5e7-4e14f43a6d48@j35g2000yq
h.googlegroups.com...
> That's less than about $1.30 to travel 40 miles on battery alone, not
> bad at all.
>
> (Unless OPEC loses control and we go back to 1998 and $10 oil.)
>
> .-=d00b
As usual, this will put congress into a difficult situation. On one hand, the
Obama Administration will encourage energy saving devices and automobiles with
some kind of tax abatement. However, an auto that is even partially fueled by
household electricity is not paying its fair share owed to the Federal Highway
Trust Fund (FHWTF) which itself is funded by a per gallon tax on gasoline and
Diesel. Don't think this is not worrying some on Capitol Hill because just
recently it was reported in the broadcast news that for the first time the FHWTF
is in the red.
Congress giveth then congress taketh away?
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